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Airplane Etiquette: On Old Women and Window Seats
Air travel brings out the worst in anyone. Check-in and security lines resemble cattle herds – a completely dehumanizing process where we’re searched inside and out. By the time we board, we’re not on our best behavior. Whether it’s getting the emergency row, silencing the crying baby or stubborn seat kicker, we pine for the little things that make us happy. Our own Mike Barish is an aisle guy. As for me, I like creating a nap nook that the window seat allows.
For some travelers, seat preferences are something sacred and worth fighting for. A recent New York Times piece describes how author Joe Sharkey refused to forfeit his aisle seat, citing that he paid extra for it. Last summer, my mother and I went to London and Paris to celebrate that she was in remission from breast cancer. On our first flight we encountered a similar situation:
An elderly woman with bags at her feet, blanket on her legs, and book on her lap stared at me from the bright blue KLM window seat. My window seat. I glanced at my boarding pass to ensure that I wasn’t mistaken. Hours earlier, with giant overweight bags in tow, I had requested a window seat for this transatlantic flight from Montreal to Amsterdam.
As I leaned in to kindly tell the old lady that she was in the wrong seat my mother pulled me back. “Go get the flight attendant,” she instructed. Apparently, in situations like this, an intermediary is key. I did as I was told, and the young airline employee explained the situation to the elderly woman. Her cloud grey hair framed her wrinkled features. She had a thick Dutch accent and her answer surprised me. Since she had been unable to reserve a window seat when she checked-in, she decided to just sit in one.
The flight was full, the flight attendant told her. If she was to have the window seat, it was up to me to give it to her. I looked at my mother, my manners mentor since I was a child. At this moment, however, she left the decision to me. “Just remember, Zoë, it’s a seven hour flight.”
I asked the woman to move.
A girl no older than my 23-year-old self was seated in the window seat in the row behind ours. After my decision was made, she offered her seat to the older woman. Rather than sitting in the empty middle seat beside her, the girl moved to our row. After putting her bags away and buckling herself in, it became clear why she decided to make the move. She turned to my mother and said, “You girls are such bitches.” Under the impression that we had no hearts, she began to lecture us on my merciless decision. Nearby passengers joined in the attack.
It took a lot to get us on the plane that evening. During my mother’s year-long treatment, doctor’s orders forbade her from straying away from her hospital. With this in mind, my mother’s temper emerged. “It’s none of your fucking business,” she told the girl. Awkward silence resonated down our row for the next seven hours. Bathroom breaks were a no-go and access to our bags in the overhead bins seemed like an insurmountable goal.
Of course there’s room for common courtesy while traveling. Had my flight been shorter, I would have happily given up my seat. However, a plane is not the NYC subway. There is no priority seating for seniors and pregnant women. Thankfully, I did not have to continue the debate on the flight. I feel asleep. That’s why I asked for the window seat.
What are your thoughts on giving up your seat on a plane? Join the debate in the comments.
Would have done the same.
I would NOT have relinquished my seat, and no one should be expected to. One airlines, which I will no longer fly, changed seats that my husband and I had chosen far in advance, with no notice until we got our boarding passes on THREE separate occasions. We were not even changed to the same row. Often in life you don’t get your first choice, and age has nothing to do with it.
Being Dutch and older does not ENTITLE a person to take what they want
If she had made her reservation far enough she could have gotta the seat
She wanted
You did what I would have done. I would NOT give up my wk Dow seat
There was an old Dutch lady in my sister in law’s building. She had been battling breast cancer and in the hospital for quite a while. Although she’d lived most of her adult life in the States her family was still in the Netherlands. The day after she was released from the hospital she packed her bags and flew home. She died the next day in the home of a relative.
I hope this lady didn’t have a similar story. She may not have behaved well, but your mother’s situation doesn’t excuse you your ungracious behavior. It may not have been fair but you look the worse for it.
Wow! The audacity of that woman! And the passengers! Since when does age trump manners and consideration? I’d have handled it exactly as the both of you had. Honestly.. :/
Good for ZOE! I am not too far from retirement and the older I get the more I notice people trying to get one over on others. I kicked a 20 year old out of my window seat. She had an asile seat but took my window and was pretending to be asleep already. No way! I booked a window because the middle is terrible and I keep getting hit on the asile. Stand your ground. I may have slipped and spilled a nice cold cola on the bitchy girl in the middle.
Wow…..I’m not sure. I too am a senior (still trying to get used to it), and I too enjoy a window seat. While I’d love it if someone would offer me their window seat I certainly would not EXPECT it.
You had every right to the seat………..perhaps a more personal comment would have swayed the onlooking judges. “This is a really special trip for my mom and I. ”
I have more of an issue with the young lady who gave up her seat………………she undid all the good in giving up her seat by being so judgmental and verbal to you and your mom. Way to go mom……it is NONE of her business. I love traveling with my daughters, I hope you and your mom continue to make wonderful memories together. God loves you both!
The woman in the wrong seat needed to move. Further, I would have again complained to the attendent when the young woman started lecturing, and would have requested she be moved as well. Both were being rude, there is a good reason seats are assigned and that should be respected.
You and your mom didn’t need the additional stress.
Amen, sister. If you don’t stand up for yourself, nobody else will. The flight attendant should NEVER have put you in this position. It is THEIR job to handle it and I would have gone up to the bursar before take off, and had them handle it.
The airline employee was the catalyst for your horrible boarding experience. Who trained her?
You and your mother were actually traumatized in a most insidious way!
You should never be guilted into being nice. The seat did belong to you, and although giving it up would have been a very selfless gesture, I don’t think it was a requirement, especially since the older woman seemed to have no special circumstances for needing the window seat. A person who chooses to be “nice” shouldn’t do it to spite another person. That young woman’s action was probably the worst of all three of you involved, and it’s a shame her mean spirited comments against you were applauded by other passengers. It’s also too bad that the flight attendants didn’t provide you and your mother more support and proactively encourage the surrounding passengers to let it go.
I take flight trips 4-5 times a year. I am 71 and I take an aisle seat and I would not give it up. I am in many other situations when I give up my seat for a person (any age) if they are “challenged” in any way such as walkers, canes or just have some other problem. I have noticed when I have given up a seat that many able bodied persons do not give up a seat. A flight is another situation.
As an “old” lady I want to say….my aisle seat is important to me. Sometimes I book a month ahead to ensure it. This switch request has happened to me many times. I was chided for not giving up my seat to an infant who was supposed to be seated with her parents. Many rows of people were outraged at my decision not to move.They wanted to give me a middle seat next to a child….a no go on a long flight.So you see it does not always apply to old ladies!Do not judge. Stick to your assigned seat unless there is alot af room on the plane.
I would have asked her to move too,a window seat is sacred to me too, as well as being an old lady ^-^.
I agree–the old woman stole something from you, and was caught doing it. Did she ask you if you could have it? I respect our older citizens, but it doesn’t give them a right to take things without asking.
As for the others, your mother was right. You didn’t evict her from her seat, but from your seat.
I would have done the same. Imagine if she was a coach passenger attempting to commandeer a business class seat.
I would have done the same !!!
I would not have cursed at all. You ordered and paid for the seat You wanted and You will not be forced out of it by bad luck or bad judgement or bad behaviour.
Put on your headphones and relax. Think of Amsterdam! MMmmmm
this was a hard call to make–seven hrs is a long trip and tiring—the woman was old–so am I!!! I prefer an isle seat anymore to a wind more leg room but you paid for an opted for your window seat so were intitled to it–soooowould you have given up the window to your mom who was an older person and had been ill??sometimes choices are hard–how did you feel about not giving your seat to this elderly person when all was said and done. Maybe her last flight to any where??? As I said hard At least you weren’t between two weight lifters!!!!
Yes, I agree…I would have done the same thing…anymore for longer flights it does cost more for anything but a middle seat it seams…and the elderly lady had the same opportunity as you to secure the seat if she wished…i really don’t see it as having anything to do with age as the window seat would be no more beneficial to an elderly person than the others.
Flying has simply become a horrid mess, from Las Vegas style gambling on ticket pricing to endless added charges. Given the fact that the environment has been made barbaric, largely by the actions of the airlines, the consequence is to produce a world lacking in the most basic civilities, with bad behavior abounding. On long flights, seating is a premium choice, which is the result of a very intentional process. So, its no fun when someone, be they old, young, man or woman, decides to squat in your alloted space. Certainly, if you simply dont really care where you sit, let it go and practice charity for the flights duration-you will be rewarded. Otherwise, you have been invaded, and have every right to demand that your rights be honored. Being lectured by other passengers about rightful behavior is totally arrogant and the worst kind of pious righteousness.
This is an such a Personal decision! I recommend
Flying Business Class at all times if possible especially
On flights that are more than 60 minutes.
Me, too. She could have explained about her mother’s breast cancer remission, but, that was none of anyone’s business. The 23 year old was hostile and not raised with any manners. Your decision was correct and those other people were the “worst of today’s generations of any age!”
I try and get an aisle seat for the same reason on a long flight…………I want to sleep. I would not have given up my seat…………….
I could have understood the elderly lady wanting the aisle seat due to navigating difficulties, but to comandeer the window seat just because she wanted it shows a shameful sense of entitlement. You did the right thing, and so did your mother.
I work for an airline..every chance I get I ask for window, for the same reason as discribed. Especially if I am on a nonconcession ticket..which is usually..as I do nottrust flying standby…I PAY for my window seat. People who are elderly or have medical conditions can either pay for their preference too or medical seating rules would apply. For my passengers, when I book them, (I work phone reservations), if they tell me they have a medical reason..due to American with disabilites act..I offer them a medical seat. No emergency rows…no windows though…because it is usually for mobility reasons (ie..knee can’t bend..DVT…toilet issues…etc)
You paid for the seat, it was your right to get what you paid for, lack of planning of someone else is not your responsibility. Every person (passenger) needs to realize there are two sides to every story and coming to a snap judgement of the other passengers was wrong, but telling them what your mother had been dealing in the last year was not anybody’s business. And your mother was right in telling the other passenger so. I don’t care who you are, I would have done the same thing.
I’m an old gray haired lady turned blonde. The old lady was in the wrong and knew she was when she took a seat that wasn’t assigned to her. The gal that gave up her seat to lecture you and your mother was the mouthy b-t-h! I’m sorry she stuck her nose into your business and you and your mother were made to feel uncomfortable the entire 7 hours flight, even though you went to sleep. Just want you to know all old gray haired lady’s aren’t like that. Better travels next time.
Likely would have done the same for such a long flight and as a 2x cancer survivor, I would have said at least as much as the mother. Just wouldn’t have dropped the “f” bomb. :-)
I agree, would have done the same.
i would have done the same and then asked the flight attendant to remove the asshole chick from my row!!
I think the elderly lady was wrong to take a seat to which she was not assigned. But I was unaware that common courtesy was dependent on the length of a trip. As an older woman, I often tell my kids and grandkids that I hope they remember these things when they are elderly and see them in a different light. I would not have taken a seat that didn’t belong to me, but had I done so, I would have been eternally thankful for a young person who let me stay there comfortably – and not proved again how rude Americans are.
I would have done the same, however, when the new seat companion made the harassing comments I would have also notified the flight attendant. One does not have to tolerate that type of treatment. As for getting up to the bathroom, you bet I would, possibly many times. I would have been sugary sweet to the young lady every single time though and if problems continued to exist that is what a flight attendant has been trained to handle – difficult passengers. Good luck with the next stage of life and continued good news.
I, too, would have done the same. I try to book as early as possible, particularly for long flights, so I can book a window seat to make my ‘sleep nest.’ Particularly since the woman in question knew she was in the wrong seat, I’d have stood my ground.
It was exceedingly rude of the older woman to take your seat. It was also rude of the younger woman to verbally attack you.
GOOD FOR YOU! Long flights are bad enough withourt peer pressure dictating our behaviour towards otheres.
Would have done the same thing. As a matter of fact, I experienced that once, and the woman had the nerve to tell me that this was her first time flying and she wanted to sit by the window. Me and my companion insisted that she move, she had an aisle seat, and ask why couldn’t we sit in the vacant seats. Really? She moved with an attitude.
Well, to her, I would have said “Excuse me, but you resemble that remark”. Then I would have been hoping to be able to pass some major gass in hopes that she would move or be miserable~! I hope that you and your mom had a great trip/time, and that she has had a full and complete remission. I hope you go on many a trip together, and may you only meet kind and human-like creatures along the way~!
Happy Trails to you.
If I paid for a window seat …I would do the same.
Almost the same thing happened to me in June on my way from NYC to Frankfurt. I had to make special arrangements with the airline when I booked my tickets in JANUARY to secure 2 aisle seats one in back of the other so my husband and I could have the additional leg room as we have bothe had knee surgey. Mine was only a few months prior to the flight and I still have knee stiffness. There was an empty middle seat next to me when a couple got on and had to sit apart.
The woman made a huge stick before even sitting saying that this trip was a 50th B’day gift from her husbandand that they should be sitting together. The stewardess aske if I would give up my seat and I declined saying I had specially requested this seat.
The woman then launched her verbal campaign.She tried a number of different arguments but the main was was that I should give up my seat because it was her birthday.
After declining for the 4th time I finally said”I guess you are just very used to getting what you want, but not this time”.The stweardess found someone else to move. Like the writer, I did not feel it necessary to go into my medical condition or make explanations. I had booked my tickets 5 months earlierand had good reasons for my refusal.
In the writer’s case the stewardess should have handled it better.
If i have reserved a seat in advance it is because it matters to me. I will not give up my seat because some lady at any age feels entitled to it. Guess she should have planned better. I agree with your mom.
Just because she’s old doesn’t mean she isn’t sneaky. You have to stand up for yourself. Nice of the 23-yer old to give up her seat but tacky to badmouth you, not knowing circumstances.
I would have done the same thing. I’m tired of seniors getting a break or a discount just for being alive longer than I. If anything, they have had the time to save up more money over a lifetime and should well be able to afford a First or Business Class seat. It was rude of her to presume she could take it in the first place.
I have some mixed feelings regarding the topic as I am always a people pleaser. However, if anyone was going to deserve that window seat I might have opted for the Mom who just crusaded thru the cancer treatment and survived to have the seat with the view. Just because the woman was older, decided to ignore her seat assignment, doesn’t mean you are a bitch to request the seat you were assigned. It was a good decision to engage your flight attendant. That older woman knew she was in the wrong seat and made a choice to ignore her rightful seat.
Ah – it brings back memories of my mother-in-law who also claimed squatter’s rights much to my embarrassment and no one got her to budge (twenty plus years ago)!
Just because the woman “stole” your window seat doesn’t mean she has a “right” to it.
As so often happens, even though she was “wrong”, she put you on the defensive.
Well done, and your Mother too.
I love to have a window seat, because i love to fly. I have to save my money very hard, that I can go to travel with my 11Year old daughter. So we won’t miss anything, this is the reason why we want to have a window seat.Sometimes I even pay for the Seat and if other people are so rude to take my seat and just insist, because they are old or so, i also fight for it! But if I only want to sleep, I do not care if I have a Isle, window or middle seat.
Sometimes there is a physical requirement for choosing a seat and we shouldn’t have to announce the reason for requesting a particular seat. Older people have to follow the rules like anyone else. It would have been more tactful on the part of the flight attendant to loudly ask if anyone on the plane would give up their window seat instead of practically insighting a riot.
I am an aisle person and request an aisle seat when i make my reservation. I also am an older person but I travel enough so that I like my flights to be as much to my preferences as possible.Was just on a transatlantic flight where a teacher asked people to move so she could be closer to the students she was accompanying. No one moved. The assumption being that the high school students had better just behave, They did.
I agree. I always book a window seat so that I can sleep. I don’t mnind changing rows or side of the plane, but I want my window seat.
In traveling, booking ahead and selecting your set is PRIMARY, if you travel at all. She was right is asking for her assigned seat, but the flight attendant was in error. She should have taken charge with the errant Dutch elderly lady and kindly explained that she would have to move, but the airlines would do what they could to find her another seat. And that, while doing that, some of the extra baggage should be put overhead for passengers safety, that the elderly lady had lying at her feet. Without putting the blame on the passenger with the assigned window seat. What if the one of the other passengers had been in her place. Poor etiquette on the part of the other passengers.
Have given up seats when parents are separated from children, or when someone is ill, and have taken bumps to make seats available BUT HELL YES would have made the elderly lady move AND would not have taken one second of the berating from the other passengers.
I think you were doing the right thing by listening to yourself. My respect to your mother.
Sorry, I agree with the b*tches comment. You know what your mother had been through in the last year, but do you know what the elderly woman had been through? And besides, the window seat was yours, not your mother’s. If you’re going to invoke your mother’s suffering here, shouldn’t you have given HER the window seat?
Can’t wait until you’re 60+ and some young kid refuses to give you a seat.
Congratulations – to everyone near that window seat, you have now confirmed the theory of the ugly American. Although I think the woman was wrong to take your seat, I was unaware that common courtesy was limited to the length of the trip.
I would’ve done the same thing. I don’t like the sense of entitlement she thought she deserved.
I loved reading your post, since I am preparing for a 12 hour and another 15 hour flight in a few weeks. I requested window seats from the beginning however have seen those request disappear like vapor! I think the old woman who “took” your seat was RUDE! I dislike entitled attitudes, because we are all in this together, and if a 23=year old wants to give a seat to an old person, GREAT! No doubt being so young there will be many more flights ahead where they can enjoy whatever seat they want… so let them suffer a little, but don’t spread that suffering around by making accusations! my last few long flights included people who hadn’t showered in days, and were sweating profusely… the odor was outrageous! Maybe someday I will afford First Class! :)
I would have done the same, because like the authors mom, I just completed radiation for breast cancer and I had to have an aisle seat on a trip to Scotland. I must say no one accomodates you with a walker or a cane.I almost got knocked over by a gentleman who was late for the flight and almost hit me with his bag.That would have ended my trip and resulted in a trip to the hospital probably with a fracture of my arm, if he had knocked me over with his bag. There are no manners on the plane these days.
Well, seven hours is seven hours an,d if that seat is mine on my boarding pass, it is my seat. I’ll tell the older lady to moved it is not her seat, it is mine. That is the etiquette and the right principle of assigned seat.
Like you I would have asked the woman to move. I like my window seat and if she wanted a window she could have requested it at the counter, asked the girl behind or at least waited until you arrived to request the seat. My mom likes aisle seats. We paid close to $150 for her to have aisle seats. On a recent flight a man took her seat stating he had long legs. My mother promptly replied that she paid extra for the seat so he had to move. I don’t care how old you are, manners are manners and the old lady and young girl were unbelievably RUDE! I still would have taken bathroom breaks, the girl could have joined the old woman in her row.
I would have done the same. I’ve also been asked by parents to give up my aisle seat for their middle seat so they both can sit with their child.
I would have done the same thing , and that flight attendant should have done her job and made her move !It was unprofessional to make you the bad guy. You paid for a window seat and you had one.
With tears in her eyes, your mother should have torn open her top and shown her recent operation scars saying “my daughter was giving this trip to me as a gift for being in remission from breat cancer — at least for now!” Bathroom breaks, access to luggage, lectures to old woman (probably retired CIA) about how important it is for everyone to follow the rules, same lecture to young woman, complimentary flights, treated like royalty (extra free peanuts :)
There is nothing wrong with standing up for your right to sit in the seat that you have been assigned. There are a few seniors who would try to use their age as a way to take advantage of others. What disturbs me most about this story is the way other passengers ganged up on those just trying to sit where they were assigned. If this had been a young person would they have responded in the same way? I think not. People in general are tired of conflict and will snap at whoever they believe is responsible. In this case it was misdirected.
I agree don’t give up the seat. Not wanting to pick on other cultures but in the travels I have made it seems many are bold even brazen when it comes to taking your turn or waiting for things. Many believe they are the only ones that count and no one else does.
Only an older woman,standing,with no seat, would get my seat,but would be glad to give my seat up for families to sit together, especially with children.
Window seats are 4 looking out. If you wanted to sleep, couldn’t you have used your Mother’s shoulder or gotten a neck pillow? Maybe this flight was important to the Senior also.
More power to ya, girl. There are far to many passengers who make flying tough with their rude behavior. Ask 1st; don’t simply homestead in someone else’s seat. As for ‘under 23′ girl, your mother’s comment to her was right-on.
Should have asked flight attendent to remove disruptive girl as well. My great aunt used to do that sort of thing all of the time….board out of sequence, sit where she wanted, etc. BTW, she was perfectly sharp and a very, very experienced world traveler. (But she looked like SUCH a sweet old lady…..)
You reserved and it was yours…no matter how old or incapable the person is!
I’m with you… Long flights without my cozy window is shear torture. And being old is no excuse for taking something that isn’t yours just because you want it. That thinking is the basis for a great deal of the worlds problems.
I agree with your decision, when booking you ask for what you want, if someone wants to offer up his or her seat it is (their) option.
The woman knew that was not her seat when she sat in it. Age is no reason for rudeness. I would’ve had her move as well. That’s the whole purpose of seat assignments! One should ask but NEVER assume it’s ok! If it had been a woman with a screaming infant, none of the other passengers would have had a thing to say!
I prefer aisle seats myself especially on long flights. Although I am not very tall, it is just my preference. I have learned from experience not to give up my seat until I know that the replacement seat would be equally acceptable to me. Of course, there may be extenuating circumstances which may warrant consideration at times.
Squatting is rude. If you had purchased a house and the day you were moving
in discovered that someone else was already in the house, comfortably settled into a rocking chair near the fireplace with a book and a coffee, would you have thought you should redirect your belongings to storage and let the person have your house?? What is the difference between that and the airline seat? You paid for it, you had the papers to prove it was yours and the interloper had neither. I would have asked the flight attendant to resolve the matter and when she asked me to decide I would have replied that her job description had already decided who would be handling this matter. Then I would have stood back and waited for her to deal with the interloper. I would have asked her to move the righteous youth on the grounds that I was being harassed.
I think that the “old” lady was in the wrong. If she wanted to sit in the window seat, she should have taken her assigned seat and then waited for you to arrive…and then request.
The fact that she knowingly took a seat that did not belong to her, made her an unsympathetic character..
Re the other people..if they are so offended why didn”t they stand up to offer their window seat? Hypocrites.. F… them all.
I would have been more polite but I too would have kept my window seat. I made reservations with Alitalia in January for travel in May and specifically booked 2 aisle seats, one in front of the other because of my husband’s long legs and knee problems. The flight over was no problem. On the return from Rome to LAX I reconfirmed the seats the night before but at the airport we were assigned seats side-by-side (center and aisle) and was told by the check-in agent that it had to be that way as we were travelling together. No amount of explaining or asking was of any use. I was told that the flight was full and that that was the way it had to be. No other seats were available. On boarding, an airline employee was one of the last people to board and was assigned the seat in front of my husband. On polite inquiry as to when she had received her seat assignment (immediately prior to boarding – i.e. at the last minute) and explaining the situation, she was sympathetic and graciously offered not to recline her seat except for a very minimal amount. I did not think to ask her to exchange her aisle for my center seat. The flight was not full and the young man by the window moved to where he could have 2 seats to himself so we ended up with an aisle and a window with no one between us, and an understanding person who did not recline her seat fully for the 13 hours. I am a senior myself and have traveled for decades. I do not remember encountering people parking themselves in seats they were not assigned until the past decade. Within the past few years on nearly every flight someone has had that problem. The flight attendants usually sort it out efficiently but it does make for a mess when boarding. I have even seen people tell other people that they had to move so that they could sit with the person they wanted to sit with. (Air France) American early twenties girls telling a French older woman to move. Fortunately my flying experiences have been more fortunate than unfortunate.
I had a similar situation on a long flight back from Tel Aviv. I ended up getting a seat in Business Class.